Pakistan or bust!
May 9, 2012 § 7 Comments
I want to go!
I want to go with a film crew and capture its beauty and craziness and see where my brothers lived.
My husband, he simply raises one eyebrow. Oh how I wish I could do that!
But that would be cool, right? Here’s my dream:
Criss cross this great country (America) talking to people about their fears and questions about Pakistan and Islam. The hard politically incorrect questions. You know, like why on Allah’s green earth would an American Muslim do a general media press conference in his pajamas? Oh I know you know what I’m talking about – it may be traditional attire but a pair of slacks and a button down wouldn’t kill ya.
Those kind of questions! Oh yes! Let’s ask the un-PC questions and get answers! And then, let’s film it! Let’s get these conversations on film and start making the culture, not necessarily the religion, a bit more mainstream.
It can be done!
Come on, who’s with me?! I’m game, just let me know when you want start planning…
You wrote:
“Criss cross this great country (America) talking to people about their fears and questions about Pakistan and Islam. ”
Americans have no “fears” of Pakistan. Most know nothing about it or the people who live there, though many will know it’s the country that gave Osama bin Laden a safe haven. How much more do we need to know?
Fears of Islam. Americans don’t fear Islam in the US. But, for good reason, many are repulsed by this religion/political system/military.
However, only 1% of the American population describes itself as muslim. Therefore, very few Americans have had contact with the Islamic belief system and what it means. However, those who’ve served in the US military in the last decade have some views on the topic.
“The hard politically incorrect questions. You know, like why on Allah’s green earth would an American Muslim do a general media press conference in his pajamas?”
What? You mean someone appearing in traditional Pakistani/Islamic clothing? I’d say the Average American doesn’t care.
“Oh I know you know what I’m talking about – it may be traditional attire but a pair of slacks and a button down wouldn’t kill ya. ”
If this is your idea of how to get at the heart of what Americans think of Islam, you’d better rethink your questions.
“Those kind of questions! Oh yes! Let’s ask the un-PC questions and get answers!”
Yeah. Do that. Get down to the Islamic life as its practiced by muslims in Islamic countries. Look into the governments and how they control their populations. Ask why Islamic nations are NEVER the places where innovation occurs. Where inventors work. Where new ideas spring up. Why is it always NEVER? Even in the oil-rich countries that can afford to finance the advancement of science and technology.
“And then, let’s film it! Let’s get these conversations on film and start making the culture, not necessarily the religion, a bit more mainstream. ”
You can always find nitwits who will say anything you want said about Islam.
Why not try to interview Bernard Lewis, the professor of Middle East studies at Princeton? He’s a world-famous authority on the Islamic world.
“It can be done!”
Yes, it can. But you won’t like what he says. Then you can interview other professors, other acknowledged experts, some of whom will explain away the utter social and economic failures of the Islamic world by blaming all the problems on non-muslims.
“Come on, who’s with me?! I’m game, just let me know when you want start planning…”
You’ll probably end up talking to someone from CAIR.
I’ve had a couple American acquaintances who’ve been to Pakistan. I really enjoyed the stories they shared about their time in that country. I hope you get to visit one day. Be sure to blog about it when you do!
no_slappz, forgive me, but why are you here?
You don’t seem to have much of a sense of humor, or much of an understanding that statements can have varying levels of seriousness, which means you miss a lot of what Loren is saying.
You don’t seem to have a real interest in Loren’s journey getting to know her Pakistani family and heritage. In fact, if you have any interest, it seems to be in undercutting her experience, which I find rude and frankly pitiful.
You don’t seem to have a real interest in Loren’s experience as a Jewish woman learning about Islam. Or at least, your sole interest seems to be to belittle her by informing her that everything she is learning must be incorrect because it is not consistent with what you think.
Loren is incredibly generous to allow your comments here. If I were her, I don’t think I would allow it. There are plenty of people out there who could add constructively to this blog by giving an intelligent, reasoned critique of the Islamic world, its relationships with the West, and why it looks and acts how it does in the 21st Century. But I don’t think you make that contribution.
(Though honestly, I really don’t know what you mean when use throw around meaningless, monolithic terms like “Islamic Nations” and “Islamic World.” Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, Syria, Mali, Kazakhstan, etc., etc. – these and many other countries make up the Islamic World of which you speak, and these are all EXTREMELY different places with radically different histories, governments, and cultures. How do you use one term to capture a place like Iran, which has Islam embedded in its political institutions; and a place like Indonesia, which has something like 12% of the world’s Muslims and is a democracy with religious freedom enshrined in its constitution?)
But I digress. My point is, I’m not sure why you’re here, and I personally don’t feel like you’re adding anything constructive.
You say: “You can always find nitwits who will say anything you want said about Islam.”
Indeed.
Jillian,
Like most apologists for Islam, you fail to see through the various facades that cover it. While there are differences among Islamic nations, the differences are far less than you imagine.
With respect to Indonesia, no, it’s not much of a democracy, and no, religious freedom is NOT enshrined in its constitution. But it’s no surprise it seems that way to you and most others who never bother to look below its surface.
By Indonesian law — a law that violates the First Amendment of the US Constitution — Islam is recognized and favored.
Meanwhile, the Indonesian government is anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.
Regarding Islamic nations, well, those are nations that define themselves as Islamic republics or theocracies. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are examples. Iran is another.
Meanwhile, Islamic nations have no room for non-muslims. You might notice that Islamic nations are NEVER pluralistic places. It’s Islam or else, as the Coptic Christians of Egypt know all too well.
They’ve suffered continuous abuse for a long time, and the abuse will increase as the Muslim Brotherhood expands its control of the new Egypt.
Meanwhile, in every Islamic nation women are deprived of rights that are standard fare in the US. Women in Islamic nations are subjected to a status that makes the inequity of the old Jim Crow laws in the US look good. And in many Islamic nations, women are chattel slaves.
Neverthless, despite this outrageous and institutionalized abuse, you’re one of Islam’s defenders. It’s remarkable that any woman would defend an ideology that enslaves women, but, well, you’re doing it.
Anyway, try answering a few questions. Why are there no intellectual advances coming from Islamic nations? Why are there no Nobel Prize winners from Islamic nations? Why have no world-class industries emerged from Islamic nations.
The answer is the same every time. Islam itself is the impediment.
Sigh. OK, I know I shouldn’t get sucked in, and this is the last time I’ll respond on this blog unless it’s specifically in response to something Loren wants to talk about.
First, I lived in Indonesia for several years. I actually know quite a bit about how it works both above and below the surface, politically and socially. I stand by my statements.
Second, re: the oppression of women, applying such a broad brush to such an important issue (“it’s the whole Islamic world!”) does it an incredible disservice. Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia have all had female heads of state, so it can’t be as simple as Islam = anti-women. A more interesting and useful question might be, what are the historical/cultural forces that have led some majority Muslim nations towards more or less extreme directions around women’s rights, and what can be done both in and outside those countries to improve the situation?
Third, you keep asking about why there are no Nobel Prize winners from Islamic nations, etc. Really, I don’t understand why this is such a big issue for you. I dunno, why have there been so few Nobel Prize winners from Latin American countries? Again, there are lots of interesting things one might learn from studying the varying levels of technological innovation around the world during different time periods, but you’re not asking any interesting or useful questions.
Fourth, throwing around a term like “apologist for Islam” is just a pointless as my throwing around the term “Islamophobe” (which I have refused to do). It stifles any kind of intelligent debate.
And finally, my original post was actual not about Islam. It was wondering why you keep coming back here if you don’t seem to respect what this blog is about.
OK, I’m done. Loren, my apologies for allowing this individual to get my gander up, and becoming so long winded about it! I will stop feeding the troll now, and I promise I won’t do it again.
Jillian,
I am touched by your comment. Thank you for you rational clarity and extensive information on the topic – I am not as knowledgeable.
Also, my interest is really in American Muslims and an understanding of the different cultures here. But I digress.
Thank you again! I am going to be a more active moderator on my blog.
Thanks for reading and taking the time to share YOUR thoughts – everyone!
Gotta love the fact that Pakistan has just convicted the person who led the US to Osama bin Laden of treason and sentenced him to about 30 years in jail. Does that tell you anything about Pakistan?